" Le SOMMEIL de la nuit est différent du SOMMEIL de la journée "

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:59:29 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:55:36 :

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Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:49:03 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:46:13 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:45:35 :
Le corps est biologiquement construit pour dormir la nuit donc forcément

ok et comment le corps sait quand c'est la nuit et quand c'est le jour dans le noir total?https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2017/19/1494343590-risitas2vz-z-3x.png

A priori essaye de dormir en plein jour quand y'a le soleil sans volet ni rideau tu verras si c'est pareil que dormir la nuit dans l'obscurité si tu vois aucune différence c'est que t'as trop habitué ton corps a dormir la journée et du coup tes juste décalé sur ce que ton corps demande normalement

bah c'est normal de pas réussir à dormir quand la luminosité est au maxhttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Donc ça confirme ce que je dis ton corps n'es pas fait pour dormir quand il fait jour

Sauf que le jour tu peux t'enfermer dans le noir donc tu dis que de la b​ousehttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Au début de l'humanité y'avais rien

Au début les humains dormaient par siestes, tu crois vraiment qu'ils pouvaient faire des nuits complètes de 7h d'affilé quand smilodon-san et grizzly-chan cherchaient à te déguster en sachimi et que tu vivais dans un environnement h24 hostile?

Le 02 mars 2022 à 04:16:10 :
https://youtu.be/NAATB55oxeQ

Andrew Huberman (Stanford) répond à ta question.

résumé des 2h?

La nuit je dors mieux c'est vrai

Le 02 mars 2022 à 04:11:43 :

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Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:55:36 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:53:58 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:52:12 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:49:03 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 02:46:13 :

A priori essaye de dormir en plein jour quand y'a le soleil sans volet ni rideau tu verras si c'est pareil que dormir la nuit dans l'obscurité si tu vois aucune différence c'est que t'as trop habitué ton corps a dormir la journée et du coup tes juste décalé sur ce que ton corps demande normalement

bah c'est normal de pas réussir à dormir quand la luminosité est au maxhttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Donc ça confirme ce que je dis ton corps n'es pas fait pour dormir quand il fait jour

Sauf que le jour tu peux t'enfermer dans le noir donc tu dis que de la b​ousehttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Rassure-moi, dis-moi que tu n'es pas idiot à ce point et que tu trolles, j'en ai besoin.https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

Tu expliques en quoi j'ai tort ou tu l'a fermes à jamais et tu quittes le topichttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Impossible d'être aussi con et de ne pas faire le lien entre la lumière/l'obscurité et le jour/nuit, je refuse de te croire. Je sais que tu es un kj, mais y'a des limites à la connerie.https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

Je crois que c'est simplement toi qui est complètement con avec un QI inférieur à 80 et qui n'a même pas compris mon posthttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Tu expliques concrètement en quoi le sommeil de jour est différent en terme de qualité du sommeil de nuit ou la fermes à jamais et tu quittes le topichttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/4/1522325846-jesusopti.png

Des millions d'années d'évolution, mais c'est un kj puceau du forum qui va remettre en cause sa condition humaine.https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

Donc c'est bien ce que je me disais, t'es un qi inférieur à 80 qui n'a pas d'arguments, hop une PLS pour toihttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/25/2/1529422413-risitaszoom.png

Et ne parle pas d'évolution et de génétique quand tu ne sais pas de quoi tu parles Corentin, la génétique confirme d'ailleurs que chaque individu à son propre rythme cicardien : https://www.pourquoidocteur.fr/Articles/Question-d-actu/35358-Leve-tot-couche-tard-affaire-genes#:~:text=Se%20coucher%20tard%20ou%20se,de%20l'expression%20circadienne%E2%80%9D.

J'avais même lu un article qui expliquait avec des théories évolutionnistes pourquoi certains avec un rythme cicardien beaucoup plus élevé que 24h et avaient tendance à vivre la nuit plutôt que le jour, l'article parlait d'individus qui montaient la garde et restaient éveillés pour veiller sur les autres et surveiller les prédateurs durant la nuit, les descendants de ces individus ont un rythme cicardien supérieur à 24 heures et se décalent naturellement quand ils suivent leur rythme naturel en dehors de la pression sociale

Maintenant ferme là à jamais et ne l'ouvre plus jamais quand tu ne connais rien d'un sujethttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/25/2/1529422413-risitaszoom.png

Quel dommage, seule source pouvant mener à ton étude sur ton article = 404, c'est vraiment dommage ça mon petit kj frangipane.https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

Et c'est aussi dommage que tu tapes les mots clés "génétique" "couche tard" "rythme cicardien" sur internet et que tu trouves 15 articles qui t'expliquent la même chosehttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/25/2/1529422413-risitaszoom.png

j'ajoute :

https://www.inserm.fr/dossier/chronobiologie/#:~:text=Concr%C3%A8tement%2C%20presque%20toutes%20les%20fonctions,un%20cycle%20de%2024%20heures.

Cette horloge interne possède son propre rythme : des expériences menées avec des personnes plongées dans le noir (ou soumises à très peu de lumière) pendant plusieurs jours, sans repère de temps, ont permis de montrer que le cycle imposé par l’horloge interne dure spontanément entre 23 h 30 et 24 h 30, selon les individus. 'La moyenne chez le sujet sain est estimée à 24 h 10. Autant dire que si l’horloge interne contrôlait seule le rythme biologique, sans être remise à l’heure, l’humain se décalerait tous les jours. Chacun finirait ainsi par dormir à un horaire différent de la journée ou de la nuit, rendant incompatible une vie en société. L’horloge interne est donc resynchronisée en permanence sur un cycle de 24 heures par des agents extérieurs.

Et oui, en fait si la majorité des êtres humains suivaient leur rythme naturel alors ils se décaleraient naturellement et dormiraient de plus en plus tard chaque jour jusqu'à ne plus dormir la nuit et dormir le jourhttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/25/2/1529422413-risitaszoom.png

C'est marrant de parler d'évolution en étant un ignare total et en étant pas au courant que l'évolution prouve en fait exactement le contraire ce que tu dis et que la moyenne du rythme des êtres humains n'est en fait pas 24hhttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/25/2/1529422413-risitaszoom.png

Je vais pas perdre plus mon temps avec ça vu que tu es déjà en PLS totale après mon atomisation en répondant une phrase par post et en ayant jamais été capable d'argumenter à une seule reprisehttps://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/25/2/1529422413-risitaszoom.png

Du coup dans ton article, les agents extérieurs agissant sur l'horloge interne pour la remettre en place, n'ont absolument rien à voir avec le jour et la nuit, c'est bien cela ?https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

Bah si les agents extérieurs c'est littéralement le jour et la nuit enfin la lumière du jour j'ai jamais dis le contraire, mais si tu les laisses pas agir sur toi en dormant dans une chambre à l'abri de la lumière du jour tu n'as aucun problème et tu peux suivre ton rythme naturel.

Attends, mais je comprends plus là, le titre du topic quand tu as posté, c'était bien celui-là ? N'importe quel humain voit au moins une fois dans la journée la lumière du jour non ? Genre tu ne sors même pas de ta chambre pour un truc à bouffer, ou bien encore aller aux toilettes ? Il y'a même l'heure sur ton pc, ton téléphone. C'est pas mission impossible pour toi d'être vraiment déréglé sans l'avoir voulu ?https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

bah le titre du topic c'est est ce que le sommeil de la nuit est différent du sommeil de la journée et la réponse c'est non

Mais du coup, ce n'est pas différent dans l'unique cas où l'on fait en sorte de s'isoler complètement du jour et de la nuit, la question n'a donc plus de sens, non ?https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2021/42/4/1634844847-jesus-defonce.png

Le 02 mars 2022 à 04:17:45 :

Le 02 mars 2022 à 04:16:10 :
https://youtu.be/NAATB55oxeQ

Andrew Huberman (Stanford) répond à ta question.

résumé des 2h?

Il parle plus précisément du shift work à 58min. Si les informations sur le sommeil t'intéresse, écoute ses 4/5h de podcast, tu apprendras des choses à coup sur.

En gros la réponse à ta question est non si tu fais attention aux sources de lumières.

Key takeway 1 : Sleep is our reset button

Sleep is a key period in one's journey because it resets the ability to be focused, alert and emotionnaly stable during one's wakeful state.
Key takeway 2 : Sleep and wakeful state are linked together

What one's do during the day (i.e. during wakefulness) impacts when he will fall sleep, how fast, how well he will sleep, ...
Key takeway 4 : Sleep quality is the product of a combination of behaviours

Sleep quality isn't governed by one unique factor. It's a combination of behvarioral factors that provides high quality sleep.
Key takeway 5 : Adenosine creates sleep hunger

Adenosine is a molecule that builds up as the day goes on. In other words, adenosine levels are low in the brain and body when waking up and are elevated at the end of the day after e.g. 10, 15 hours without sleeping.

Caffeine works because it blocks adenosine receptors. And everybody needs to figure out for himself whether caffeine should be part of his regimen because sensitivity varies tremendously across individuals.
Key takeway 6 : Circadian rythm dictates our wakeful state and sleep cycles and are controlled by cortisol and melatonin

If one has ever pulled an all-nighter, he knows that when morning comes, he will feel more awake than during the night itself altough adenosine has built-up all night long.

That's because the natural circadian rythm embedded within our nervous system drives our sleepiness and wakefulness. These rythms would happen even if one was placed in a cave with no external clue whatsoever of the time of the day.

Therefore, the key to sleep quality (or solving sleep disorders) is to correctly regulate this circadian rythm.

The circadian rythms are regulated by hormones : cortisol (wakeful signal) and melatonin (sleepy signal).

In most people, a pulse of cortisol tends to be released when (or around that time) the sun rises and is accompanied by a release of adrenaline. The combination of these releases signal the body that it's time to crank up the heart rate, that the day is about to begin. So the pulse of cortisol is the wakefulness signal.

This pulse of cortisol then also determines when another hormone, melatonine, will be secreted about 10 to 14 hours after the cortisol pulse. And melatonine is the sleepiness signal.
Key takeway 7 : Sunlight allows one to regulate its sleeping and wakeful states patterns

The circadian rythm, the internal clock, is set through a collection of neurons found in the eye region. These neurons are sensitive to particular light wavelengths (quality of light) and particular light quantity. And the source providing these two particular wavelengths in sufficient quantity are the sunrise and sunset.

Getting those two types of light at the correct times in the day and in the correct amount is vital to setting the cortisol pulse and melatonine production.
Key takeway 8 : Go outside an hour or two after sunrise and an hour or two before sunset

In order to set your internal clock correctly, you need to go outside without sunglasses one hour or two after sunrise and one hour or two before sunset. This is quality of light.

For quantity, one should aim for 100 000 lux. Smartphones applications (e.g. light meter) are able to measure that easily. It's impossible to give a length of time because of the many variables that influence light intensity (cloud cover, obstacles, reflexions, ...). If you really want an order of magnitude... between 2 and 10 minutes exposure.
Key takeway 9 : The longer you are awake, the more sensitive you are to light

It is true that outside light in the morning is the best source of light for setting the internal clock because of (on top of the particular wavelength) the quantity of light. In other words, setting the internal clock through artificial does not work very well (because it takes forever to reach 100 000lux exposure).

However, the longer one is awake, the more one is sensitive to light. After a long day, light coming from screens or artificial lights can actually influence the clock and make one stay awake longer or have trouble falling asleep.

After 8pm, one should really limit the amount of light he is getting. And between 11pm and 4am, one should definitely not get any light exposure because studies have shown that it suppresses melatonine production. It's ok once in a while but not daily.
Key takeway 10 : Red lights placed on the bottom of the field of vision are better

Cells that regulate the internal clock are located in the eye so that they react to the upper part of the vision field (logical ... the sun is located in the sky).

So if one wants to design his room to diminish the activiation of those cells because of night lights, one could place the lights low in the room e.g. on the floor and use red/yellowish lights rather than fluorescent lights (these are the worst) and finally use dim lights.

Also, fire and candle lights don't trigger the cells that regulate the internal clock.
Key takeway 11 : Exercise and food come additionnally to sunlight

Sunlight is the primary driver of healthy sleep patterns and drives away many health issues and mental disorders.

But food and exercise, additionnally to light, can help to anchor the internal clock correctly. Exercising early in the day will tend to make one wake up early. Eating generally triggers wakefulness.
Key takeway 12 : How to wake up earlier ?

Get light to the eyes (even with eyelids closed) at the desired time of waking-up (overhead artificial light or open curtains). See the sunrise light (one or two hours after sunrise). Exercise early. Eat early.

Avoid bright lights at night. Don't eat too late. Don't have intense physical activity too late in the day.
Key takeway 13 : You don't control the body with the mind. You control the mind with the body.

Improving behaviours require action. Action requires using the body.

Breathing, movement, seeing sunlight, eating. All those tools that can help one setting his internal clock actually involve the body. And this in turn regulate the mind in a positive manner.
Key takeway 14 : It's expected to have a dip in energy around 4 o'clock

Around 4 o'clock (little before, little after), most people will probably feel a dip in energy.

This is okay. Just go with it. Don't engage in a focus bout or strenuous activity at that time. Rather, take a nap if you can and if you manage it well. Or engage in a non-sleep deep rest protocol such as Yoga Nidra.

https://github.com/FenryrMKIII/huberman-podcast/blob/master/episode%20002%20-%20Master%20Your%20Sleep%20%26%20Be%20More%20Alert%20When%20Awake/episode%20002%20-%20key%20takeaways.md

Franchement pour avoir été un gros dormeur de journée (couché a 5-6-7-8h pendant des années) c'est bien plus agréable de dormir la nuit et de vivre le jour, t'as bien plus d'energie et tu te sens mieux

Key takeway 1 : Moonlight, candles and fireplaces don't impact your circadian rythms

Intensity and wavelengths of those light sources are such that they don't impact our circadian rythms. Plus, the sensitivity of the cells located in the eyes that react to light to set the circadian rythm adjust their sensitivity throughout the day i.e. they are less sensitive at the end of the day.
Key takeway 2 : Use of red light is unnecessary and most red light devices are too bright to be used at night

Some equipment producing red lights exist. However, they produce too bright of a light to be used at night without disrupting the circadian rythms.
Key takeway 3 : Blue blockers don't save you at night

You need blue light during the day. So don't wear blue blockers during that time.

And at night, even with blue blockers, seeing intense lights will disrupt the circadian rythms (roughly between 10pm and 4pm). So at night, avoid all bright lights even with blue blockers (in other words, blue blockers are useless).
Key takeway 4 : Only light to the eyes matter to set circadian rythm

A few commercial products claim that light introduced by the ears or the nose or the mouth can impact the circadian rythms.

Until serious studies are done, this is not considered as true and only light provided through the eyes can set circadian rythms.
Key takeway 5 : Viewing light through a windows takes forever to impact the circadian rythm

Viewing light through a window is inefficient as the intensity of light (measured in Lux) is drastically diminshed.

Plus, it does not scale linearly. So half the lux DOES NOT MEAN you can just stay twice longer and get the same effect. It does not work that way.

So to set-up your circadian rythm, get outside.
Key takeaway 6 : Prescription glasses are fine

Prescription glasses are fine since they focus light to the eyes. Contrarily to windows or windshield that scatter light.
Key takeaway 7 : Add-up your lights early in the morning before the circadian dead zone

Adding-up light works during the early morning (few hours after sunrise). So, if you live in a low light period, get oustide longer during the morning. Set-up bright lights, especially overhead, when inside again during the morning. These lights will add-up and help set-up your circadian rythm.

After these few hours in the morning, you will be in a circadian dead zone and won't be able to change your rythm even with bright lights.
Key takeway 8 : Viewing light at sunset helps your body to "shield" against other lights at night

Viewing the light at sunset (again ... from outside) helps prepping the body for sleeping. And somewhat provides a protection against other lights (e.g. TV, screens, ...) that one will still be subject to after sunset.
Key takeway 9 : Seasonality is important

Seasonality regulates body mechanisms. During winter, less light is received by the cells. Therefore, the melatonin signal will be stronger and this tends to downregulate some mechanisms like reproduction, protein synthesis, fat oxidation, ... And also people tend to be more depressed in winter. The contrary is true during summer.

In other words, it's logical to be (and feel) less in shape in winter than summer. Obviously, not everyone reacts the same way or shows the same sensitivity to seasonality. But it's a real thing.
Key takeway 10 : You can't just bathe in light

Based on key takeaway #9, one could think that bathing in sunlight all day long during winter could prevent strong melatonin signal and therefore prevent seasonal depression.

But melatonin has other effects and benefits e.g. stimulating the immune system. Therefore, one can't just stay exposed to light all day long because this would have adverse effects on other necessary systems.

In summary, everyone will need to determine how much light he needs during the day and how much light he can tolerate at night to have an optimal system.
Key takeway 11 : Golden timings for exercising

Litterature suggests that 30 minutes, 3 hours and 11 hours after waking-up are windows of opportunity for exercising and performance.

However, exercising at other times is better than nothing.
Key takeway 12 : Pavlovian tricks for neuroplasticity

Hearing a tone or smelling an odor during learning and having that stimulus repeated during the nights significantly increases the learning rate. Tactile stimulus e.g. vibrations on the wrist should also provide similar gains in learning rate improvement.
Key takeway 13 : Increase learning efficiency by taking naps

Short 20 minutes naps or non-sleep deep rest protocols (e.g. yoga nidra) following an intense learning bout (whatever the learning was : intellectual, music, movement) of 90 minutes have shown to increase both the amount of information retained as well as the depth of retention.
Key takeway 14 : Your temperature matches the daytime

If circadian rythms are correctly tuned, the body temperature shall match daytime. And it matters a lot because body temperature triggers various things like a rise in temperature promotes ability/desire to engage in an activity (learning or physical).

If someone has not slept very well the day before and experiences a morning chill by 11am, it's because its body temperature really is low and promotes sleepiness.
Key takeway 15 : Cold shower early in the morning shifts advance your clock

Taking a cold shower early in the morning will wake you up (duh!) for sure. But more importantly, it will phase-advance the internal clock i.e. one will want to wake-up earlier.

This is because there is a rebound after an ice bath causing thermogenesis i.e. an increase in body temperature.
Key takeway 16 : Eating schedule influences wakefulness or sleepiness

A fasting state tends to promote wakefulness (think : being active to search for foods) while a good meal tends to promote sleepiness.

Particularly, a protein-rich meal tends to promote tryptophan, therefore serotonin and therefore sleepiness (rather read : happy with current situation).

https://github.com/FenryrMKIII/huberman-podcast/blob/master/episode%20003%20-%20Using%20Science%20to%20Optimize%20Sleep%2C%20Learning%20%26%20Metabolism/episode%20003%20-%20key%20takeaways.md